new subject: social skills
Is there any way we can get a forum section just on social skills alone, rather than have it tied to another subject?
I want to share some insights.
Marian,
I find the actual business of conversing to be less problematic than maintaining my interest in some conversations. I love to debate issues, and even fluff can be fun if it's interesting fluff. I'm fortunate in that I have fairly diverse interests and can talk about a rather wide assortment of topics. And I love learning from others. It isn't a problem for me to be wrong or to need more information. All I need is to be challenged and engaged. Then things tend to go well.
All this is after a lot of therapy and a lot of practice.
However, I find that many people aren't particularly good conversationalists. And I mean that in the sense of having something interesting to say, something that isn't just some sort of often regurgitated witticism or canned opinion plucked off a news program.
My main problem is what happens when I strongly disagree. I'm working on not sharing when I disagree unless it really matters and unless I know the other person or people care to know what I think.
For example, I'm on an autism board where parents routinely bash psychotropic medications. And I'm no fan of theirs, but unfortunately my son responds powerfully to them and not so much to anything else at this time. A younger me would blithely post a rebuttal about how meds can be necessary evils for some families ... the older me is starting to say, "Oh well. I don't have to fight this fight, as all I will achieve is to make a lot of people desperately unhappy with me. And then discussion on the board will be tied up with retaliatory flames.
So if I do respond, I will email the inquirer directly and keep my feedback off public domain. I'm not silent about what I think, but I am learning not to court controversy wherever I go.
I just had a very long and enjoyable conversation with the mother of one of my daughter's friends. Turns out we both have highly accomplished scientists for fathers. We had the best time swapping stories of their virtues and their struggles and the events that contributed to who they are.
So if the company is right and we "ping," I do okay, more than okay. I don't do okay when the other person and I have little in common and even less to share with any weight to it. And I can tend not to do well if I strongly disagree (as with racism) and feel trapped into listening to what I would consider a childish or offensive argument. I so admire my friends with AS who say, "I don't agree and will become angry if I discuss this further. Excuse me." Growing up with my dad acculturated me to a certain amount of playing along with crazy people. But as with everyone I have my breaking point and will eventually halt or escape from the conversation.
I'm learning to redirect by getting up to use the restroom or suddenly remembering something or simply just changing the subject. My dad is interesting in that he will just suddenly turn his back and walk away from conversations he doesn't wish to engage in. He gets away with it because he is a successful guy and a man. As a woman and mom, I find I need to be more artful.
I wonder if I should purposefully converse for the sake of it, which doesn't currently interest me, or if I should without apology choose my friends and conversation partners, not just according to what I think would be fun but also fun for the other person.
By the way, I am in no way making reference to our recent interchanges on other threads! I am thinking more about the sorts of conversations certain members of my extended family try to engage me in, which can be somewhat horrifying.
Stimming can get me beaten up, so I really try to avoid it when I'm around other people.
Echolalia is also bad, I've discovered, because it can be misinterpreted as the autistic person mocking someone else.
Staring- even when it's at things, not people- can get an autistic person into serious trouble, too, because people assume that the autistic person is up to no good.
My doc has me practice phrases like 'please stay away, he's working' (to keep people away from my service dog and me) so that the phrases will roll off my tongue when I need them. When the phrases aren't handy, I have been known to use less adaptive methods of keeping people away from us.
Waving people on when walking or driving has helped me hugely. People were getting mad at me, and I couldn't figure out why. I just assumed that NTs knew the rules of the road, which was apparently incorrect. It turns out, they wave each other on so that they can both feel magnanimous and never have to learn the rules!
Almost anything that falls under the category called 'stating the obvious' should probably be left unsaid by the autistic person. There seem to be many hidden reasons why many people prefer to pretend that things aren't the way they are.
Then there's the problem of the obligatory handshake. I preempt it by waving, and saying 'Hello', as I'm introduced. This usually works for me.
Then there are cultural dos and don'ts, but with so many different cultures, there are far too many of them to list.
I've noticed a lot of people with AS avoid touch. I am very affectionate and a hugger. So if anything I err on the side of being too forward! Must watch this impulse!
I suspect one of my nieces has AS. When she sees me coming, she literally runs in the opposite direction, so now I tell her, "Don't worry, I won't hug you unless you want me to."
@runawayspacedog
I really only stim with a leg shake which I can hide. What do you do to stop yourself outside?
My son (16) has echolalia, especially when people speak in different accents. Oh boy, that can be a tough one to explain.
He says he likes the way they sound. I tell him he'd be great at sound effects but maybe we ought to do that kind of thing in private. Of course, then it's not as intriguing because he can't hear that person.
I really like your comment about 'stating the obvious'. I have a knack for doing exactly that. I have trouble sometimes coming up with other things to chat about, especially small talk so I am learning to have certain topics ready to bring up (not personal ones). Not easy when the personal is right there on the tip of my tongue.
It would be a fascinating intellectual exercise to analyze some of the reasons for this avoidance that many people partake in. You know there must be some who don't in all areas, else we wouldn't have protests or human rights groups.
Your comment about knowing the rules of the road made me laugh. Sometimes, I think they know them but deliberately avoid heeding them. Grey areas don't you know!
@califmom,
If I like someone, I can be too affectionate and if they're men, they often take it the wrong way.
When I was younger, this spelled no end of trouble because I lack theory of mind, at least in some ways. As I've gotten older, I see that if I'm relaxed enough, I can get a fair idea of where things are headed. Sh**, I wished I'd learned that years ago. Would have saved me a lot of grief.
How does your niece react now?
Hi Marian.
I don't see my niece often enough and she is still very young (almost eight), so I think she isn't particularly focused on me per se. She tends to bolt from anyone whose actions she can't anticipate. And I have a very huggy and kissy family, so I imagine she had to acclimate slowly to just about everyone, who in turn learned to let her make contact without pushing things. Greeting everyone at the door, I hug and kiss just like everyone else, and I imagine she sees this activity going on and thinks, "Eek! Not for me!" Coming off of greeting everyone else, I will usually crouch low and greet her -- she cowering behind her father -- and assure her I won't surprise her or grab her or anything.
She is extremely aloof, so I have found it very hard to get to know her. The best exchanges I've had with her are when playing games, such as spoons (the card game) or Scrabble -- she is very bright -- when she will relax and smile and joke around. The kids in my family, and it might be an American thing, tend to shout, "You suck!" and "I hate you!" and "I'm gonna get you!" when wrapped up in a competitive game. She will engage in this type of shouting as well but not quite as much as her cousins. I think this amuses her.
My stepmother tells me my niece, who lost her mom (my sister) two years ago to cancer, has frequent meltdowns and has to have everything just so. Sometimes they will all make a plan to go someplace, and if she doesn't agree with it, she will refuse to participate. One of her "things" is to have to drink bottled water father than tap water. We have very good tap water where we live, and many people will just pour it straight from the sink. She can't abide this.
Unlike with her NT twin (a boy), she needs considerable facilitation to sustain engagement with anyone. I am used to facilitating with my son, who is more severely autistic, but find I must calibrate the degree to which I do this and the manner in which I do it. This can take a little time for me to work out and seems easier within the context of a game. If I had more time and opportunity to practice with her, I'm sure we could be good friends.
My brother in law (her dad) is remarrying, and he is very kind to bring the kids 400 miles or so away from home to see their relatives down here (not related to him or his future wife, all relatives of his former wife). This doesn't happen very often.
Hi, Marian. To stop myself from stimming or ticcing (I have Tourettes, too), I stuff my hands into my pockets, clench my teeth, and hope for the best. I just try to stave off the urge as long as I can until I can get somewhere private. It doesn't really work reliably, but without being medicated to the point where I couldn't walk anywhere, I can't do any better.
I find job interviews particually hard. I know when I have said something wrong by the look on the interviewer's face or just the general "vibe". What I don't know is what it was that I did or said wrong. I can't say "I have Aspergers, please look past that, I really am smart" because I feel that will take me off the 'maybe' list straight away. So many times I have walked out of the interview knowing that I haven't got the job.
I went for a permanent position at a place that I had been working in for years. I was interviewed by two people, one I knew and one that I didn't. The interviewer I knew later said to me that I was not myself in the interview and that she barely recognised me. She had to get other people to vouch for me as the other interviewer didn't think I could do the job after meeting me.
I am looking for a new job now and really dreading the interview stage.
Hey, Michelle. Can you wow them with a portfolio, first?
That's a great idea! I don't know anyone else that has one so perhaps the uniqueness of it will help. Thank-you 
The 'stating the obvious' thing amuses me. When i tried to tell my NT daughter things when she was a child (the kind of things i'd wished someone would have told me when i was a kid), she would look at me and say "I KNOW that mummy!" When she got into her teens and older, it was "No sh*^ Sherlock!" Nowadays it's "Geez mother you are such a retard sometimes!"
Wow! That was quick! Now I'm on the hotseat
Guess I'll start with my oh-so-favorite topic: conversations. I don't know about anyone else but learning to engage with NT's has been a long-term project along with the headaches that go with that.
Having an instant translator would make things so much easier. Alas, I'm stuck with my eyes and ears.
Things I've found useful:
Being relaxed. That's a tall order but it can be done if you start really slow.
Some eye contact. I had to practice in the mirror at first. Even now, it's fleeting although with my son, I don't seem to have any problem. Wonder why that is? Something to do with the nature of our relationship? Hmm.
Unless you know the person really well, steer clear of personal, intimate conversation. Keep it light and easy. Not the easiest thing for me. I tend to say too much too soon. I'm working on it though.
The last thing I can think of at the moment is to watch how long you talk. Same goes for web-site posts. It's hard for me to read and digest very long posts (and conversations) even when I really want to focus.
I'd like to hear from others too.
-M
That so few now dare to be eccentric, marks the chief danger of the time.
John Stuart Mill